Curse

Silmor · Apr 07, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I think stealth-classes, be it Thief, Rogue or even Ninja, are hard to imagine in Guild Wars. This because teamwork, even if it's with henchmen, is the key element in the game, and stealth simply doesn't work in numbers - it isolates people from their team in order to be effective. As romantic as slitting a throat behind enemy lines may seem, the practical side of it is still that people who run off on their own to be lone heroes will remain a threat on missions, not contributors. I believe stealth requires a different game setup, or at least a different mission design, before it can be of any use.

Manderlock · Apr 07, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

i do think more professios need to be added later on, but id honestly rather see new races before all these new professions.

worthless · Apr 07, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

this isnt a new build or profession, but i think a neat skill would be: for x period of time, when youre hit a skill you only recice x% of the effect, and now have that skill at whatever level it was for x seconds

Chaos Engine · Apr 08, 2005, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Silmor, you are indeed right about that. GW isn't built around stealth. Adding a new class with a focus on stealth would definitely introduce new gameplay mechanics & possibilities. I think taking a step forward is a good thing.

gangguard · Apr 08, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

It may be great to see different races like Charr and Undead maybe make it like Horde vs Alliance in World of Warcraft. And as someone mentioned before Rogue is the correct spelling and rouge.. well its in Moulin Rouge or something........

Who cares about realism of Martial arts, spring a dragon out with the tips of your fingers and anyway you should see bruce lee against a samurai (with katana) and bruce lee killed him in seconds..... For example make a spell like backfire instead it works on attacks not spells, kinda cheap though.....

Jeb Bush · Apr 08, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Trogdor- He was a man wait...he was a....dragon-man...no...he was a dragon.

Burninate-oh my god!!! the peasants!!!! nooooo not the countryside!
Majesty-Ohhh pretty!
Beefy Arm-HULK SMASH!!

Daemon · Apr 08, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Just want to add another example.

New 'proffessions' could be created not by expanding on what we have, but by limiting them. A ranger/xnewproffesionx limited to beast mastery (or replaces the primary with said attribute line) + enhance said attribute line with new skills or a passive effect = profession more dedicated and more effective at something a little different. Add the skill to 'summon' a temporary pet from thin air with these limitations, and you've got yourself a 'summoner'. Or, add the ability to play as your pet, and have AI take hold of you temporarily....a 'shapeshifter'.

More evidence to support the fact that almost any character type you want can be created based on what we have already...and I predict so will be the case long before any solid new profession is added.

We've got the red, yellow and blue, so if you want purple, make it.

Midnight Scorpion · Apr 08, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

How about the almight Nagging Girlfriend class? All the other classes can forget about PvP forever.

gangguard · Apr 08, 2005, 11:27 AM // 11:27

but if more and more professions come along the more complicated balancing issues will get for the GW team so it maybe some builds are way overpowered, so maybe limit some profession combos like not allow (e.g Rogue/mesmer)........and so on.... but of course Guildwars wants you to make your very own characters, (i think) their is currently more than 1 million combos because of the different 8 skill lists and different choices of professions, attributes and weaponry so Guildwars wants to make you different from each other not every1 getting the similiar characters.......

Silmor · Apr 08, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Engine

Silmor, you are indeed right about that. GW isn't built around stealth. Adding a new class with a focus on stealth would definitely introduce new gameplay mechanics & possibilities. I think taking a step forward is a good thing.

You are indeed right, taking steps forward is a good thing.

Something that changes the nature of the game is a departure to something new however, and whether that can be considered a step forward or backward is rather subjective, since the game will lose mechanics and possibilities to make way for the new mechanics and possibilities. If you happen to like the new game you end up with, you'll call it a step forward. If not, your favourite game may suddenly lose its appeal.

I personally hope ArenaNet will find ways of moving the game forward on this issue without changing the nature of the game. More possibilities are fine, but a game can't cater to every type of gamer at once.

butcherboy · Apr 08, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Stealth can be implemented via skill that takes adrenalin or energy of some sort to use, lasts until the user attacks, runs, or/and a counter detect skill available to all classes passes a check to see if the stealthing user was detected. A user with a higher stealth would be harder to detect by a PC with a lower detection rating. Rangers could get a natural bonus to detect stealthing players. Night time/shadows/fog would give stealthers a bonus towards being stealth. Unless there is an uber weapon a stealthing player couldn't possibly toast a unsuspecting character so asside from the first attack, stealth would only be useful for flanking, evading, or ambushes.

I don't see how large of a bonus stealth would give anyone. First attack bonus or evasion would be about all the benefit a stealth player would receive. The detriment would a first level stealth player would be wasting his time until he PvE enough to get his/her skills up. Also stealth is sort of a single use battle thing. Putting skill points in stealth is pretty much only useful to PvE combat given that monsters are easier to fool than PCs.

In regards to armor and fists, a trained martial artist has virtually no pain sensing in his hands due to the "toughening" undergone to hands during training (whacking wood things, stone things, and people). What? You never saw Iron Dragon where the dude busts through a wall with his fist? Also this will be rise to the use of tiger claws, iron gauntlets, and of course grapling devices like chain bound daggers, blades, balls, and of course, other spears. Perhaps a samarai or a roden class would suit things just as well. Skilled at hand to hand combat but equally skilled at short and long weapons, weapon manufacturing, and silent attacks. Roden, BTW are those samrai whose masters have died and thus have no honor.

Pole-arms and halbreds are great for formations of soldiers. I do see guilds learning more tactics than bum-rushing. A block of foot soldiers holding ground will be deadly to the average joe bum-rusher. Besides, look at the range a pole arm gives you over a sword. They are great for meeting attacks after which the first attack the pole-arm dude switches to his secondary long sword.

Short swords and daggers would be cool for two handed fighters (two heavy long swords? now way!), stealth players (no long sword poking out of bushes to give away positions), and speed fighters - people who like the speed they can get from short-light weapons. Daggers can also be great thrown weapons (hmmm Rune like throwing weapons hmmmm).

Along the lines of undead and other "evil" critters, who says guild war players have to be goodie two shoe kingdom savers? Why can't the be evil two shoes kingdom slayers?

AtomicMew · Apr 11, 2005, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemon

If the case were, as you put it, to have your human skills change into the skills of whatever you shifted into...then that would be a little broken don't you think? Even if you could only shift into one thing, that's already 8 skills more than the other players. That doesn't sound fair to me.

And why not? It's implemented this way in D&D, and shifter is hardly a powergaming class - (in fact, in NWN, it pretty much sucks). Shifting would obviously have at least a moderate casting time and probably a hefty energy cost, so you couldn't just cast one thing in one form, and then shift into something else and cast something completely different.
Again, most of a shifter's skills would be likely weaker than its human class counterpart. I.e., transforming into a dire tiger or something would make you a strong in melee, but not so much as a warrior. Shifting into a rakshasa would allow you to cast strong direct damage spells, but not so much as an elementalist.
So what would be the point of using a shifter, if its human class counterpart would generally always be stronger? First, Adaptability - if your team desperately needs a role to be filled, you would be in many cases, able to fill it. Second, innate bonuses - that dire tiger form I mentioned would have running speed %33 percent faster ALL the time. The rakshasa would have a resistence to harmful spells of casting cost 5 or less (or something like that..)

Anyway, this is just my vision of what a shifter class would look like, but I think it could work.

SisterMercy · Apr 11, 2005, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Wouldn't a shapeshifter profession require a different skill for each shape he or she could take? That'd help balance it a little. Max 8 changes, probably less if they're going to use any other primary or secondary skills.

I also don't think invisibility would quite work the way some are indicating for the Rogue. You'd still be able to see their footprints, animals would still be able to sniff them out, and you should be able to target them by mouseover, even if it's tougher to spot them. I'd still make it a difficult skill to maintain at length.

I'd like to see something more stealth-based too (it's what I prefer to play), but as was mentioned, there really isn't a lot in the game yet that calls for steathing. If a Rogue or similar were to be introduced, it'd also be nice to see a new arc of missions and some integration in the current map to make it more worthwhile.

TheRealDecoy · Apr 11, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I made this over at The Guild Hall a while ago. It's still a work in progress, but the basic idea is there. I tried to fit a lot of different ideas into one profession while also borrowing as little as possible from the existing professions in terms of gameplay mechanics.

gangguard · Apr 12, 2005, 10:36 AM // 10:36

WONDERFUL REAL DECOY UR PROFESSION ROCKS!!!!
Maybe change the attribute names a bit, because DEMON body, DEMON mind so basically only have one of the attribute name have DEMON in it

GREAT JOB!

tekki · Apr 13, 2005, 01:07 AM // 01:07

I say a ranger should have the skill to transform into the same thing as there pet
instead odf a whole new class called druid

Raumoheru · Apr 14, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Martial Artist- Many people want one of these. I can imagine these kinds of characters working as support melee, perhaps even working with adrenaline. EXAMPLE: Incapacitate. Target is slammed into the ground and is unable to move or attack for 2 seconds. This attack does no damage and drains all remaining adrenaline.

Quote:

Unarmed Combat: Ok, I am not an expert on martial arts so please correct me if I am wrong. Have you ever seen two martial artists fight each other with just fists wearing leather hide or metal plate? I sure have not, and I believe it is for a good reason. Have you ever punched a car door? It is going to hurt because metal is much harder than your hand. Now if you punched the car door did you manage to do any real damage? Now I know your going to argue that martial artists break bricks and boards, but the way those demonstrations are set up the board or brick has two supports on either end producing a great deal of torque about the center of the block. People do not have opposing supports, people give and move, and armor disperses forces. I just do not see an unarmed man have much chance against an armed and more importantly armored opponent, when the unarmed man uses punches. Now if your unarmed combat user were to grapple and throw, maybe he would have a better chance.

Martial Artist rely on evasion and quick reflexes so the armed part isnt too offset. the point with hitting the armor is, who is gonna hit a person in the armored chest if there is a nice face poking out of the helm? and the heavily armored person not being able to move very quickly gives the martial artist a distinct advantage.

Quote:

In regards to armor and fists, a trained martial artist has virtually no pain sensing in his hands due to the "toughening" undergone to hands during training (whacking wood things, stone things, and people). What? You never saw Iron Dragon where the dude busts through a wall with his fist? Also this will be rise to the use of tiger claws, iron gauntlets, and of course grapling devices like chain bound daggers, blades, balls, and of course, other spears. Perhaps a samarai or a roden class would suit things just as well. Skilled at hand to hand combat but equally skilled at short and long weapons, weapon manufacturing, and silent attacks. Roden, BTW are those samrai whose masters have died and thus have no honor.

dont forget about brass knuckles

i beleive that the Martial Artist have a very good chance to survive in a world of swords and warriors. it has for decades in D&D.

for those who want Guild Wars to be "unique" how is using swords and armor unique? that has been around for 1000+ years...

Tur713 · Apr 14, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Oh! How about a Robo-Pirate-Ninja ? It'd be so against what Guild Wars is, it'll be fantastic. And it can go to level 80000 and kill everything and tame bunnies.

Sorry, could help myself. I've seen some good class ideas here too, like the one that can turn into an animal. It reminded me of Mortal Kombat's glory days...ANIMALITY!

Willow · May 11, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I too would like to see a rogue/assassin/ninja stealthy class... if it was implemented well.

And Martial Artists... but not just normal martial artists, but supernatural martial artists (like in Hong Kong Wuxia movies or Exalted, as opposed to real world martial arts feats.)

RogueArislan · May 19, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

ninja/assassin would be very cool but heres few other ive been thinking

Dark Knight (maybe armors that are huge,dark and they need to have spikes and cool helm (my opinion is cool helm is very important) and maybe some big 2handed swords as weapons maybe since huge swords look great... i cant think much of skills so ill leave those for game dev's

Dragoon yea these would own also they need big armors too but their armors have to have something to do with dragons naturally maybe somekinda big axes as weapons (gigantic axe would look awesome with some cool armor) and as skills maybe some breath attacks and stuff like that

Martial Artist yea some kung fu would own maybe they could have higher dodge and nice hp but quit low def (armors something that suit martial artists)

thats all for now...